I gave this talk at the Vancouver Digital Media Ecologies Research Symposium. I argued that the place of ‘not-school learning organisations is firmly if unequally established as part of the ‘ecologies’ of educational provision in many cities across the developed world. In many of these initiatives there is an interest in and commitment to a range of creative actives, art , drama and forms of media making. There is a small if problematic research literature describing and characterising learning in such centres and spaces. In this talk I reflected on what it means to talk about learning out side of the school and explored the significance of some ‘creative biographies’ – examining the effect over time on people who participate in such initiatives when young and what difference it might make to them from a life-long perspective.